Author Topic: Seems like AI could be greatly improved with a few new ship designs  (Read 1414 times)

goduranus

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Yey, bought the game recently. I am beating the Hardest non-cheating AI after 3 games, but I think this is mainly because I am using several designs that the AI is not.

1.Economic Space Stations, this includes materials export stations, orbital refineries and fabricators. Moving the economy into space is a huge advantage as it frees planetary slots for research labs, quickly resulting in tech advantage. Building orbital ore refineries and fabricators can greatly multiply the economic output of a limited number of planets, and can even generate very good income from scattered-ore planets.

2.Drydocks, AI doesn't seem to use any of these, and so their ship building capacity is not as good as the players'. They should build more of these especially when the cheap external-mount based drydocks become available.

3. External mount based designs. Once external-mount is unlocked, the AI should use them on a large scale. Designs using external mount can be anywhere from 2 to 3 times the effectiveness of a conventional design of the same cost, or the same effectiveness at maybe half the cost and space usage in carriers. Examples include a size 8 drydock with nothing but external construction bays, that is just as good as a dedefault.size 50 drydock
« Last Edit: September 29, 2011, 05:37:06 AM by goduranus »

Aquila_27

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Re: Seems like AI could be greatly improved with a few new ship designs
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2011, 07:11:19 AM »
I went crazy with external mount when I find about them, putting them on nearly all my ship, I find out that it boost the cost quite a bit, they are still more efficient, but they get a lot more tricky for combar purpose, as the external system get shoot before armor. 

About the station with rafinery, they can't produce any metal when the planet is out of ore, is it?  I do put all my electric and advance part in space later, and leave only metal mine on the planets for this reason.

spyre2000

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Re: Seems like AI could be greatly improved with a few new ship designs
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2011, 12:00:18 PM »
3. External mount based designs. Once external-mount is unlocked, the AI should use them on a large scale. Designs using external mount can be anywhere from 2 to 3 times the effectiveness of a conventional design of the same cost, or the same effectiveness at maybe half the cost and space usage in carriers. Examples include a size 8 drydock with nothing but external construction bays, that is just as good as a dedefault.size 50 drydock
When External mounts were first added to the game I went crazy with them making ships packed full of them. Like in your size 8 vs size 50 dry dock comparison I found I could get more in a smaller design but there is some draw backs.

First is I don't believe you on the cost as you have to pay for all of those components PLUS the cost of the external mount. I found that it was actually slightly cheaper to just make the larger size of the ship without the external mounts. The resulting larger ship design cost less and had just as good of stats.

Second issue is that external mounts take damage BEFORE armor so those systems or extremely vulnerable in combat. Thus heavy use of external mounts is really only good for noncombat ship designs.

Lastly the extra mass added by the external mount is likely to slow down your ships even more, not a problem with stations, but if you want your ships to get places in a timely manner added extra mass is not the way to go about it.

That being said I think External mount do serve a purpose and using a couple here and there is fine. But the temptation to over use them can lead to some rather inefficient designs. I tend to play GA mod which has a limit on External mounts so it's not really an issue there but when I do play VG I rarely have more then 2-3 external mounts.

As for you other comments yes the AI is horrible inefficient at it's use of resources. If hardest AI is not much challenge I recommend turning the cheats on. It helps them a little more but overall the AI is lacking. I have seen mention of people wanting to improve it on the forums so maybe someone will make a mod.

As for the AI not using economic stations I am under the impression that it doesn't have the ability in the engine because it has no way of tracking that information. Also I was not really aware it didn't use dry docks as I never paid close attention to what station designs I was blowing up.

The AI ship designs are also a bit lacking and only pose a threat in numbers which is sad because it's easy to out number them with a better economy.

EDIT:
About the station with rafinery, they can't produce any metal when the planet is out of ore, is it?  I do put all my electric and advance part in space later, and leave only metal mine on the planets for this reason.
Most planets have a decent ore stock starting out so building Metal Refineries can supplement your Metal production on that planet. Also there is the issue that some planets have lots of metal but due to size or planetary traits you don't really want to put a lot of Metal Refineries on the planet. In this case you can use the station to refine the ore while the slots are taken up by structures that take advantage of the planet's traits.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2011, 12:26:34 PM by spyre2000 »

Exa

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Re: Seems like AI could be greatly improved with a few new ship designs
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2011, 02:52:57 AM »
Second issue is that external mounts take damage BEFORE armor so those systems or extremely vulnerable in combat. Thus heavy use of external mounts is really only good for noncombat ship designs.

Just a thought I have barely tested - if you can spare 1 slot and the required resources, a massive weapon in a external mount provides the ship with what is for all purposes another layer of armor - scale 4 weapons have a lot of HP! :)

Of course, big ships will find scale 4 weapons not very efficient, but I guess it might work for something like a bomber or even a small destroyer (size 5 or so)

losarn

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Re: Seems like AI could be greatly improved with a few new ship designs
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2012, 07:00:25 PM »
I think that the mount itself takes damage before the weapon.

Azalrion

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Re: Seems like AI could be greatly improved with a few new ship designs
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2012, 03:50:25 AM »
No they don't, mounts redirect all damage to their linked subsystem.
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