Author Topic: Economic Discussion  (Read 6005 times)

Panpiper

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Re: Economic Discussion
« Reply #30 on: July 16, 2012, 01:26:29 PM »
It doesnt go from 100% directly to 20%, read the thread about metal production in the GA: Help & Support sub forums.

Well, whether it changes over instantly or goes through a process is almost immaterial to my primary beef. I can be playing the game, enjoying myself nicely with a healthy ratio of resource production and then in a virtual flash that can happen so suddenly I don't even notice till it's done, I have no metal at all. However that formula is constructed, it needs work.

Azalrion

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Re: Economic Discussion
« Reply #31 on: July 16, 2012, 01:30:17 PM »
Well, whether it changes over instantly or goes through a process is almost immaterial to my primary beef. I can be playing the game, enjoying myself nicely with a healthy ratio of resource production and then in a virtual flash that can happen so suddenly I don't even notice till it's done, I have no metal at all. However that formula is constructed, it needs work.

Well that's different from your previous statement to be frank. The formula doesn't need work, you're just arguing for unlimited resources working at the same rate through the entire game instead of a form of semi realism and the wish to keep up constructions on planets supplied from local resources instead of having to create import capability to fuel construction, not having to consider orbital ore farming or aggressive expansion to take planets with high levels of ore remaining.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2012, 01:33:00 PM by Azalrion »
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seronis

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Re: Economic Discussion
« Reply #32 on: July 16, 2012, 01:52:37 PM »
Just FYI scripted governors like mine or Jyins are able to access every bit of game state that exists as long as time is spent writing the code to do it. They can make as complex of decisions as a player could. Azalrion pointed out to me this week that I had been misunderstanding the ore extraction rate so I am gonna be rewriting my governors again to make them a little smarter. While I am at it I might try to incorporate some of those governor mandates ideas. I havent done much work with the gui yet so I gotta see how hard it is to set up an in-game options page to adjust the mandates but if you have any suggestions feel free to post them in my thread. ( LINK )

Also to help with your metal problem, once ore is gone from a planet you need a ratio of about 10-12 mines, 2 electronics facts and 1 advp factory in order to have a healthy production ratio without depleting yourself of all your metals.
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Panpiper

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Re: Economic Discussion
« Reply #33 on: July 16, 2012, 01:57:40 PM »
...you're just arguing for unlimited resources working at the same rate through the entire game...

Did anybody actually read my original post? I am most emphatically NOT arguing for unlimited resources working at the same rate. I am asking for a very gradual and steady change, not something that happens so suddenly I can't respond without opening each individual of my 200 planets, and reconfiguring every last one of them. And even then, it is often too late, as the change is so sudden and drastic I go from surplus to no metal before I even notice it shrinking.

Azalrion

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Re: Economic Discussion
« Reply #34 on: July 16, 2012, 02:05:54 PM »
Did anybody actually read my original post? I am most emphatically NOT arguing for unlimited resources working at the same rate. I am asking for a very gradual and steady change, not something that happens so suddenly I can't respond without opening each individual of my 200 planets, and reconfiguring every last one of them. And even then, it is often too late, as the change is so sudden and drastic I go from surplus to no metal before I even notice it shrinking.

That's what my response was though, saying that the change is gradual. For example the modifier at 50% ore remaining is 0.6, yet at 70% its 0.76. Over 20% reduction of ore you only see a reduction of 16% efficiency. That's why with your response to my post I thought you were arguing for something else.

Early to Mid game that is a very very gradual process, what the real issue is the exponential nature of technology increase which will ramp up metal production so much ore can be used up in seconds. With default settings that should take well over an hour of game time at 1x speed to reach that point.

So the issue isn't not with reading your post, which I did before responding, but not considering the ways in which technology ramps up production in an exponential way and how quickly at high tech levels ore is consumed because of this nature making the change seem instance if you don't spend time micromanaging your planet while watching the production rates and ore levels.
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Panpiper

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Re: Economic Discussion
« Reply #35 on: July 16, 2012, 02:26:27 PM »
Well, as an easy way to fix the problem, perhaps have a technology that unlocks around tech 12 (which is usually before I hit that singularity) called 'Deep Core Drilling'. It is a super high tech device made 100% with advanced parts (so if you've screwed up and already effectively had all your metal converted to advanced parts, you can still build the things). It produces just as much metal as a regular metal mine would except that it is utterly oblivious to the remaining ore on the surface of the planet. It is getting it's ore from the planet's core.

Make it expensive if you want. Make it slightly less effective perhaps (though I would not) than regular metal mines even, but give us something we can use proactively to get ourselves ready, short of tearing down virtually every facility on every one of hundreds of worlds and rebuilding from scratch.

Azalrion

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Re: Economic Discussion
« Reply #36 on: July 16, 2012, 02:34:13 PM »
Well, as an easy way to fix the problem, perhaps have a technology that unlocks around tech 12 (which is usually before I hit that singularity) called 'Deep Core Drilling'. It is a super high tech device made 100% with advanced parts (so if you've screwed up and already effectively had all your metal converted to advanced parts, you can still build the things). It produces just as much metal as a regular metal mine would except that it is utterly oblivious to the remaining ore on the surface of the planet. It is getting it's ore from the planet's core.

Make it expensive if you want. Make it slightly less effective perhaps (though I would not) than regular metal mines even, but give us something we can use proactively to get ourselves ready, short of tearing down virtually every facility on every one of hundreds of worlds and rebuilding from scratch.

The problem with that is that it is effectively unlimited resources at 100% efficiency which means that there is no need to consider the need for orbital mining or expansion / retasking planets which have not used all their ore up for metal production.

As I said earlier there are ways around running out of metal on a planet, you just can't consider them as isolated units but as part of empire production as a whole, consider a fair few wars on our planet its been about expansion to hold resources because you've mined all your local ones. We want to keep that need for territorial disputes in SR. What you may to discuss in the research thread though is whether exponential increase should be kept or if we should change to a flat rate so that this does not happen so quickly at high tech levels.
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Malebogia

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Re: Economic Discussion
« Reply #37 on: July 16, 2012, 02:59:15 PM »
with edit idear i ment the part Malebogia stated in his/her edit, about traits triggering the governors to build more planetary weapons or bunkers.
i think thouse would be used only from the AI, because im happy to play without thouse buildings=)
maybe i would like them against human players idk

Doh. You don't have to take traits you don't like you know? Who says every trait has to be an improvement, i didn't even state wether they would cost or give points. Obviously taking such a trait would not exactly be beneficial, its about adding flavour to the game.

MindsEye

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Re: Economic Discussion
« Reply #38 on: July 16, 2012, 05:41:29 PM »
Lore based answer:

Each star port you build gives you half as much 'galactic import' available to import docks as it gives the planet general trade capacity.  Building a star point assumes you are also building the civilian transport vessels that do all the transportation so it would be unreasonable to have the import docks on random stations and space craft to have no limts to their overall trade capacity.


Technical answer:

If there was no limit on your total galactic import rate it would make planets nearly obsolete after early game. Its a balancing and design decision. Also import points are not lost when scuttling.

Why cant you build a star point for a station or a ship?I think what your talking about is balance which I agree it needs balance. My solution is to make import and export docks much more expensive,much larger size ,and crew dependent. It makes No sense I can spam export docks everywhere but not import. Planets are already obsolete mid game anyway.Only used for research pretty much.Import and export docks should be a rather large operation for a ship or station.Maybe should be a minimum size they can be used on as well.If I build a dock on a station then the same rules apply for a trade port on the planet(civilian ships being built,ect).

seronis

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Re: Economic Discussion
« Reply #39 on: July 16, 2012, 06:14:33 PM »
The reason its unbalanced is because of the population requirements. I think if we could decide what scale of a subsystem would need to be dedicated to 'civilian population' to be the equivalent of one planetary city it would help. Add food storage to ships after that (and probably farming) and the rest would be able to be figured out.
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crys

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Re: Economic Discussion
« Reply #40 on: July 16, 2012, 06:23:27 PM »
hey if we add some enhanced matter generator, which can produce metal we could play nearly without planets.
uh why not some ship research then? =)

think its going to far - its more importand to enhance/fix old things then to make so much new

MindsEye

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Re: Economic Discussion
« Reply #41 on: July 16, 2012, 07:01:47 PM »
Food storage would be cool but the more things the computer has to keep track of the worse performance will be.Also ships will be more complicated to design.

I just dislike the way import works.Plus I dont know where my points go.It just doesnt make sense to me to have a limit on import and not export.It just needs some balancing.This is also where freighters could really shine.Carrying freight to and from station hubs around asteroids.Even from ships and back to planets.Docks should be a supplement to freighters in space. I think what needs to happen is storage needs to be drastically increased maybe 3-5x.We need a station hull that is for freight as well.Freighter hulls and station freighter hulls need to be cheap and easy to build.I mean they are basically empty shells after all.Maybe we up the space for cargo on both hulls for lots of storage.I think part of the trick for freighters is for them to be more efficient then they are now.My ships go from planet to planet only trading a fraction they can carry it seems.When they deliver a load they need a way to unload it all reliably.Next we need a building on planets(shipping center) which only deals with freight. The building would have a massive amount of storage for metal and ore(storage could be explained as empty underground mines).It would act as an extension of the galactic bank.It will have an export rate so it cannot dump all at once into the planets cargo.Either have it export directly to the bank or to unused trade port points.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2012, 07:04:52 PM by MindsEye »

seronis

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Re: Economic Discussion
« Reply #42 on: July 16, 2012, 07:52:05 PM »
Think of it this way, the galactic bank is effectively the entire fleet of civilian traders, freighters, and military supply craft that visit the space ports. At any given time the sum total of your galactic bank should be somewhat evenly distributed across your empire, and not necessarily be available to any single "space port" at a time (whether that is a planetary or ship based port).

The total number of slots on planets in a star system places a hard limit on the total amount of space traffic that should be in a single system at a time. You cant build more than this amount of space ports after all. Since ships are not limited in scale letting them have unrestricted port capacity breaks any sense of balance in moving goods around your empire. It would let m/e/a produced 1000au away be instantly used somewhere else without having to wait for a real transport ship to move it there.
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MindsEye

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Re: Economic Discussion
« Reply #43 on: July 16, 2012, 08:33:55 PM »
Yes but what your saying would apply to both import and export in space would it not?Right now you can do that with miners in different systems with no planets.They can mine asteroids from anywhere at an incredible rate directly into the bank.

My balancing suggestion would nerf space docks to where its not an issue.They would still be useful but there would also be a need for freighters.You could still solely rely on pure docks at the cost of most of your ship space(cost and space simulating the necessary infrastructure needed to operate the dock).So trade from ships and stations would be limited.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2012, 08:38:46 PM by MindsEye »

MindsEye

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Re: Economic Discussion
« Reply #44 on: July 16, 2012, 09:49:31 PM »
The way I see it the player should be rewarded for effort and setting up an intricate economic empire. Remote building station hubs for miners to dump resources in and freighters to haul it to planets. Geting the ratios right. This should result in more profit then putting everything on bone ship then spam till your happy. Altho the alternative is still there if you dont wanna bother.

Azalrion

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Re: Economic Discussion
« Reply #45 on: July 17, 2012, 01:55:28 AM »
Why cant you build a star point for a station or a ship?I think what your talking about is balance which I agree it needs balance. My solution is to make import and export docks much more expensive,much larger size ,and crew dependent. It makes No sense I can spam export docks everywhere but not import. Planets are already obsolete mid game anyway.Only used for research pretty much.Import and export docks should be a rather large operation for a ship or station.Maybe should be a minimum size they can be used on as well.If I build a dock on a station then the same rules apply for a trade port on the planet(civilian ships being built,ect).

That's not enough balance. See the thing you are missing here is that planet slots are a limiter, they can only achieve a certain import rate (note import only, i'll discuss why in a second) and so that sets the overall cap for the economy. Now we are only worried about import rate because no matter how fast you can export, export does not allow you ship building capability, import on planets dedicated as ship factories is what limits the game. For this reason both BMS and ourselves have decided unlimited export via ship systems is acceptable but unlimited import is not because it makes the economics of the game completely obsolete.

Now how to introduce a ship system that will not completely replace planets? It has to be tied to something that can be limited, this either needs to be based on some intangible effect of some random aspect of your empire or we decided to base it upon planets and more specifically the mainstay of the economy the space port. The lore reason I gave for this on the dev forums (as we tend to do for realism sakes) was that a spaceport can only land and maintain so many trader vessels, most of these are dedicated to the overall economy but some have no trade runs, now when you build an import station these traders with no jobs now have the task of running too and from that import dock wherever it may be, and so those spare pilots are now no longer available to service any other import station so you can only build so many.

Now limiting by cost and crew requirements is no limitation because those things are effectively unlimited, its a self propagating system which will grow exponentially and have no limit apart from the one we don't control of your pc's memory amount.

The reason its unbalanced is because of the population requirements. I think if we could decide what scale of a subsystem would need to be dedicated to 'civilian population' to be the equivalent of one planetary city it would help. Add food storage to ships after that (and probably farming) and the rest would be able to be figured out.

Again refer to the above, that still has no limitations (unless I'm on the wrong track from this for which I apologise.)

Yes but what your saying would apply to both import and export in space would it not?Right now you can do that with miners in different systems with no planets.They can mine asteroids from anywhere at an incredible rate directly into the bank.

Not from our point of view, in our point of view export docks use the local craft of the vessel to dump it at the local branch Space Vendor's R Us which then holds it till the traders come around ready to move it to where it needs to go. Import is waiting for a specific vessel to go to the nearest resource location, get the resources which are specifically needed and offload them.

Quote
My balancing suggestion would nerf space docks to where its not an issue.They would still be useful but there would also be a need for freighters.You could still solely rely on pure docks at the cost of most of your ship space(cost and space simulating the necessary infrastructure needed to operate the dock).So trade from ships and stations would be limited.

No it really wouldn't because player built freighters are flawed, they cannot cross gravity wells. There is no way we can improve upon them without well... doing something I'm not keen on doing and not even sure if its possible as it might clash with the AI scripts for AI based empires.

Also automation orders on freighters, that's not a problem our end that's a problem with how you are setting them up if they only unload a certain amount.


To sum it all up docks are the main stay of the economy, we introduced import docks as a way of allowing players to build remote construction ships and stations and to supplement orbital economy since freighters are not cross system. Whether export docks should have the same kind of limitation as import docks is something we might look at, but as it stands this is the best balance method we have found out of two or three we have tried under previous releases.
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seronis

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Re: Economic Discussion
« Reply #46 on: July 17, 2012, 08:15:13 AM »
As most of the points seem to have been made I'll share one thing that is on my current 'TODO' list as i get time.

There is an unused "no_bank" tag that im sure you are aware of. Ever since i started using GA with its specialized hulls i've wanted to make a "no free bank" tag and enforce it with one new station hull and one new ship hull, both related to the bank. Both hulls when built would be instantly deleted the same way the ringworld hull deletes itself and these hulls would be unlocked at Economics 4 same as the import/export docks.

The purpose of the station hull would be to add stats to that particular star system to manage a local bank. Building a station builds storage capacity. The hull will look at the stations total cargo space and add that much cargo space to the local bank limits.

When building the special ship hull it would increase a given systems maximum trade per second that could occur within the system. The ship would examine 3 main factors to compute how much it increases the trade rate. It would look at its own cargo capacity. It would look at its acceleration value. And it would look at the average distance from star to planet.

It would be assumed that building a star port on a planet also builds enough mini transportation ships to handle 10-25% of a starports total trade capacity. Capital buildings and star ports would also add a small amount to the local bank. Galactic cap 5000 , planet cap 1000 , and space ports 500 to each resource type.

At Economics 6 another hull could be unlocked to manage raising the storage limits of the galactic bank. Any transportation capacity within a system that wasnt being used would automatically be used to move resources between the local and galactic bank as needed. The bank panel at the top of the screen would show the local bank when a star/system/planet was selected or the galactic bank at any other time.

Using these limits means that we dont need separate restrictions on import/export docks on a ship. A ship, just like a planet, will be limited to the Star Systems current trade rate. A ship not within the gravity well of a star would only have access to galactic bank resources and be limited to 10-25% of its trade capacity. A ships import/export docks WOULD NOT contribute to the transportation rates of a system it was in. It would just be limited to the systems infrastructure (and maybe still have access to 10% of its total rate from galactic bank resources).




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Malebogia

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Re: Economic Discussion
« Reply #47 on: July 17, 2012, 04:26:55 PM »
That sounds very interesting.

Speaking of new hulls, im an avid sci-fi reader and there is a notion that comes up again and again.

The space borne farms.

Conceptually the idea is as simple as it is logical and brilliant. Farms in space have several advantages like 100% uptime of sun, no energy waste trying to get products away from a planets gravity well and atmosphere aswell as a 100% controlled enviroment of probably genetically engineered plants. Truly for an technologically advanced spacefaring species there is hardly a reason to use actual planets for farming(or even mining or fuel for that matter, aside from maybe for local production/consumption, especially if you have to first terraform a barren piece of rock). Once your at the point where you have your production in orbit, you really don't want to haul raw materials(especially basic stuff like iron or silizium) to that orbital production plants, where would be the point in that if you could just mine asteroids for a fraction of the cost?

I think late game the economic side should move away from the planets since it just makes no sense to built spaceships and stations bigger than planets with the resources you mine from said planets. Personally i would feel good with something like this:


Early game: Planets are everything, ore and available planet slots limit your expansion.

Middle game: Production and economic side move to space, planets are for population(personally i think population should affect import and export rates, think independend traders and such that smuggle and/or supply your populations needs, if those trade shuttles are manned you need a lot of population for that alone) and probably mostly strip mined by now. Primary ore resource and limitation at this point are asteroids and planets unsuited for live by means of orbital mining(preferably via weak mining hull station).

Late game: Who needs planets or population? Everything is run from space by advanced AIs and stuff anyway. Ore comes from huge(vulnurable) hulls, that can compress the H3 found in stars through controlled fusion(like the one happening in stars) into any element higher in the period table(the create ore from H3). Obviously stars age as you mine them and go nova once you deplete them of their ligther elements.

Very late End of game: Matter generators are no longer in huge immobile hulls but simply part of even small spaceships, H3 is no longer needed as a source for fusion since your race possesses means to directly convert energy to matter now. To recap, this is very very late techlevel wise(30+?) and at this point we probably have scale 10k ships flying around that obliterate planets as soon as they enter systems ... with their point defenses. Not that there are any more planets around, or stars for that matter... at this point the offensive techs should probably start to rapidly outpace the defense based techs to bring the game to an end.


No idea how ringworlds fit into this, they are a bit of a sidestep and mostly a means to use the entire energy emitted by a solar systems primary sun. By the point you have zero point and matter generators you don't really have a use for ringworlds, realistically speaking i mean. I mean most of the space a ringworlds encloses is just empty space, 99.8% of the mass of a solar system is in our sun anyway, and most of the rest is in jupiter. Just to put mining on planets into perspective.

P.S.: Is it possible to have asteroids respawn? Or maybe not depsawn in the first place, and instead regenerate ore at some rate? Just to simulate the massive amount of asteroids that should be present in a solar system. Not that farfetched that the combined mass of them can dwarf the mass of even a bigger planet easily.

Also anyone liking the idea of a nomad species completely living in space? I seem to remember a theme like that from a couple sci fi settings ... Probably would require an entirely new tech and fitting modules, maybe only accessible via a special trait that at the same time makes planets useless to you ... hmm i might look into that one myself.

crys

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Re: Economic Discussion
« Reply #48 on: July 17, 2012, 04:53:52 PM »
about asteroids, maybe it should be considered to increase there ore alot. to explain why - all the heavyer accessable elements on our planet earth, are from impact events.
most of the heavyer elements of our planet went into the planets core when it was still molten. i think most planets were molten at some stage and collected all their metals in there cores.
if the ore mining inclueds mining the planets core, then please ignore this =)


bit offtopic but malebogia spoke about sizes
hmm
you mentioned the size of ships/stations, in relation to planets.

im not sure, we should be so certain about the things we see in this game.

the suns look relativly small in this game, but the equatorial radius of the sun is 109 times bigger then the one of the earth. so suns look very small here, but are much larger - it might be the same with ships and planets.
idk if our sun is big or small in relation to other suns.

so maybe ship size is more for comparison between ships, not planets, asteroids, moons or suns =)

it would be difficult to play with proper sized ships, they would be so small, or the ships in this game are much larger then i thought.

Malebogia

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Re: Economic Discussion
« Reply #49 on: July 18, 2012, 10:59:43 AM »
about asteroids, maybe it should be considered to increase there ore alot. to explain why - all the heavyer accessable elements on our planet earth, are from impact events.
most of the heavyer elements of our planet went into the planets core when it was still molten. i think most planets were molten at some stage and collected all their metals in there cores.
if the ore mining inclueds mining the planets core, then please ignore this =)


bit offtopic but malebogia spoke about sizes
hmm
you mentioned the size of ships/stations, in relation to planets.

im not sure, we should be so certain about the things we see in this game.

the suns look relativly small in this game, but the equatorial radius of the sun is 109 times bigger then the one of the earth. so suns look very small here, but are much larger - it might be the same with ships and planets.
idk if our sun is big or small in relation to other suns.

so maybe ship size is more for comparison between ships, not planets, asteroids, moons or suns =)

it would be difficult to play with proper sized ships, they would be so small, or the ships in this game are much larger then i thought.

Hmm true, but then again, look at the production or storage of a planet slot compared to a scale 1 module of similar kind on a ship. The visual size might not be perfectly in scale with planets(and your right in terms of size for our sun, its a rather small star btw), but those things are still freaking huge. Even with deep core extraction you can't just magic in matter. If you suck enough liquid metals out of our planets core the crust would shrivel up which probably would not be deemed 'good going' for people living on said crust.

... so how about a deep core mining building that does that? Can be built once a planets ore reaches zero, extracts at full mine capacity or even above but instead damages a planets HP. If you forget to destroy it ... well you wanted more asteroids didn't you :P.

seronis

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Re: Economic Discussion
« Reply #50 on: July 18, 2012, 12:28:18 PM »
... well you wanted more asteroids didn't you :P.
THIS automatically wins my approval. I love consequences =-)
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MindsEye

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Re: Economic Discussion
« Reply #51 on: July 24, 2012, 10:44:19 AM »
I am thinking planet ore could be drastically increased. Ore runs out to fast imo. Then you rely heavily upon asteroids and mining ships. I think an increase by a factor of 2 is needed badly. Maybe even an increase by 5-10 would be nice.

crys

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Re: Economic Discussion
« Reply #52 on: July 24, 2012, 10:55:06 AM »
i think there is enough ore on planets, its not like you dont get anymore metal when the ore runs out.
if the planets have more ore, there is little reason to use ore on non production planets, and asteroids.

ok i agree for planets with low ore, like below 100m

i would suggest to increase the ore on asteroids alot - when you start mining them you propably get millions of metal/sec then thouse asteroids go away very quickly.

MindsEye

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Re: Economic Discussion
« Reply #53 on: July 24, 2012, 01:31:26 PM »
Thats my problem tho. Once you get miners with export docks planets become nearly useless. Mining ship production snowballs very easily to whatever you want. Meanwhile its easy to mine out planets and phase them out completely. While I disagree with hard limits to import and export they are in need of heavy balancing. Maybe even restrict them to planets and stations only.

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Re: Economic Discussion
« Reply #54 on: July 24, 2012, 01:34:59 PM »
Maybe introduce a system to ships similarity to the ramscoop only for collecting ore or metal. Like recycling space debris from destroyed ships.(sorry for double pozt on my phone).

Panpiper

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Re: Economic Discussion
« Reply #55 on: July 24, 2012, 01:52:23 PM »
i would suggest to increase the ore on asteroids alot - when you start mining them you propably get millions of metal/sec then thouse asteroids go away very quickly.

That certainly would make a lot of sense. If we absolutely have to keep the utter nonsense of the way whole planets can for all intents 'suddenly' run out of ore (I know, that's not technically what happens, but that IS the way it seems given the way tech increases mining speed so much that the decrease in mine output is 'rapidly' hastened), then when we finally shift our whole bleeding economy to asteroids, it would be nice to know we won't have to do that yet again.

Another thing to consider would be if we are going to play a game in which there are at some point, 'no' resources to be had anywhere in the galaxy, I would think that there would be an awesome push for improved recycling technology that would result in 'zero' wastage. That's right, 100% materials recycling from scrapping old ships. Make it in the range of tech 15, which would fit in nicely with around the point where the game becomes unplayable.

(I actually stop developing my metallurgy technology at around tech 8-10, just to avoid having to deal with this insanity. That is not the way reality works and for a game to work this way does not in my opinion a good game make.)

Malebogia

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Re: Economic Discussion
« Reply #56 on: July 24, 2012, 02:20:27 PM »
I think making ships above a certain scale create "asteroids"(aka wreckage) would be nice too. I means thats a helluva lot of metal to just completely vaporize.

buttz

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Re: Economic Discussion
« Reply #57 on: July 30, 2012, 01:35:50 AM »
RE the metal -> electronics -> advanced parts problem, would it be possible to make E/AP manufacturing plants work like shipbuilding does?  Instead of converting metal all the time, they do "potential conversion" at the rate that they produce.  Metal is removed from the bank (to avoid confusion) but it isn't actually converted until there's demand for E/AP, at which point it's converted instantly, or if there's demand for metal and none for E/AP, it gets regurgitated as metal again.

This would probably require the creation of a fourth material type, "basic polymers" or something, so I don't know if it's feasible.

e: Or for a simpler hack, it seems to me that above a certain skill in metallurgy/shipbuilding, things like "electronics" and "raw metal" would stop being discrete concepts.  Imagine entire ships being stamped like integrated circuits, hull/life support/engines/guns all done in one go by one process.  So maybe at like metallurgy 15 or something, any resource could be used in place of any other resource for shipbuilding because there isn't a difference between them anymore.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2012, 01:53:08 AM by buttz »

SpeedyGonzales

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Re: Economic Discussion
« Reply #58 on: September 05, 2013, 11:56:44 AM »
I have one idea. Planet has X amount of ore. Player build mining facilities. Mines extract Y amount of ore, but colonists discover more ore deposits (+Z to planetary ore, can be increased by some technologies and increasing population). IMPORTANT: colonists can discover unlimited amount of ore. If Y(mined ore)>Z(discovered ore), then amount of planetary ore X start to decrease. If player extract all ore (X=0), then ore extraction will be decreased to Z. But player can return former quantity of planetary ore, if he disable some mining facilities (Z>Y). This system will alow player change his planetary resources policy without any consequences.