Author Topic: How do you build your ships  (Read 10214 times)

Dashy

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How do you build your ships
« on: July 01, 2011, 06:25:35 AM »
Tally Ho lads, just a quick question. How do you tend to make your ships? Tend to make my ships fast heavily armoured and with rack mounted big guns.

Mission

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Re: How do you build your ships
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2011, 07:37:38 AM »
its important to bulkhead vulnerable systems so your ships can last longer, and depending if your ships are stand-alone or clustered u'll want repair bays and repair tools (tools for clusters, bays for stand-alone). You also want to make sure you have fast ships, easiest way to beat your opponent is to have longer range guns and just be able to kite them all day.

(bulkheads are more early game but are still valuable on weak things like generators)
« Last Edit: July 01, 2011, 12:32:56 PM by Mission »

Starmage21

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Re: How do you build your ships
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2011, 10:46:47 AM »
I dont use Bulkheads very much because I use the heavy hull. It protects your subsystems a lot better than the standard or light hulls. Combined with lots of armor, your ships dont die until the hull is pretty much dead, even with explosive power sources.

Hazzard

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Re: How do you build your ships
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2011, 12:37:04 PM »
Big ships, lots of .25 rail guns.

They can do a lot of damage to larger vessels and a fleet of these will absolutely decimate swarms.

Mission

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Re: How do you build your ships
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2011, 12:39:44 PM »
problem with that strategy though, if your enemy outfits the proper armor, all those railgun shots will do no damage.

Dashy

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Re: How do you build your ships
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2011, 12:13:26 AM »
Ok, time to list this stuff up I guess.

My fleet's combat ships come in Four "Makes". Frigates, Dreadnoughts, Destroyers and Carriers. Please note this is more an indication of role, and not of size (IE Destroyers tend to be the largest ships).

Frigates get relatively fast engines, a fair chunk of armour and as many .25 railguns I an cram on, with Rack's of course. This gives me a well protected, fast and High DPS warship that is useful against large ships and small ships. the problem is reduced efficency against armour and very low Ammo lifetime (even with Quantam Compressors).

Dreadnoughts are the heavy hitters as it were. They get ungodly amounts of armor and shields, and massive weapons, backed up by small amounts of flak and .25 railguns. They are slow, but neigh on unstoppable when used with the other ships (properly). I use these guys to deal with enemy heavy ships and artillery installations.

Destroyers are hybrids of a sort. they have lower armour than the other two, and huge engines. they carry an unholy amount of massive torpedoes. I use these guys to insta kill carriers and planets.

Carriers are basically vanilla, with a few modifiations.

Hazzard

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Re: How do you build your ships
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2011, 08:22:08 AM »
Quote
problem with that strategy though, if your enemy outfits the proper armor, all those railgun shots will do no damage.

They have a bank of overpowered lasers as well. When an enemy vessel closes within range of them it's really cool watching 10 500 scale destroyers light them up with a concentrated blast of about 80 .25 scale lasers :D.

I believe they have a couple of large plasma throwers as well.

Dashy

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Re: How do you build your ships
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2011, 04:04:56 AM »
Wow.

Particle Cannons+ Fastrails=Utter and Pure Pwnage

Hazzard

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Re: How do you build your ships
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2011, 08:46:15 AM »
Yeah they are pretty nails to be honest... especially in a fleet of them. They rely on 10+ tech levels, which is the only real downside.

I should really upload the designs to the database.

spyker92

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Re: How do you build your ships
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2011, 11:40:46 AM »
My playstyle:
+ I like to run carrier schemes mostly. I like "pocket" carriers (tiny support carriers, basically deliver and ditch models is what I use), and assault cruisers/destroyers (think destroyer + 1 wing of fighters) for my main forces.
+ I run alot of laser/plasma weapons due to ease of use. Just dont tell the AI. Last time that happened...  :-X
- I concentrate alot on just overwhelming firepower and mass production. So I tend to skimp on metals for proper armament defense wise. And try to be extremely cost effective. Thus, about half my ships are the proverbial "glass cannon"

One of my favorite designs(more of a fleet really) is when I'm really getting into full scale galactic warfare.
I combine my "assault destroyers" ( twin 3.0 plasma throwers with 6 .25 standard lasers and a quantum compressed hanger bay full of .1 scale Plasma Beam bombers) & my "flak barges" (Basically a big fat mobile flak gun of doom, have about a dozen variants ^^') to protect a single Scale 200+ carrier/spatial manipulator super gun and just literally blow my way through systems (either by obliterating planets with my obnoxiously high alpha from the super gun, or flattening everything in a volley of concentrated area fire... XD 30+ Scale 125 flak barges will murder most AI fleets within the first volley if you can keep up with them tech wise)

One of the funnest things ive done is a make a quantum compressed scale 3000+ carrier ship, and see how many Battleships (with their own quantum compressed hanger bays holding Destroyers, which of course, hold frigates, which hold pickett boats, which hold bombers...etc) I could fit into it...

" Super carrier anyone? "
 XD


-Spyke

spaceman spiff

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Re: How do you build your ships
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2011, 02:48:01 PM »

One of the funnest things ive done is a make a quantum compressed scale 3000+ carrier ship, and see how many Battleships (with their own quantum compressed hanger bays holding Destroyers, which of course, hold frigates, which hold pickett boats, which hold bombers...etc) I could fit into it...

" Super carrier anyone? "
 XD


-Spyke
Past about TL10 you can actually create ships that fit in themselves.  The practicality of this is of course debatable, but it would certainly be shocking to watch that lone scale 64 ship that just flew into one of your star systems suddenly erupt into hundreds of identical ships.  Unfortunately automation doesn't yet support this kind of recursive shenanigans (at least AFAIK), so you'd have to manually (un)dock each ship in turn.

Once you get to around TL20 compressors... well, things just get weird.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2011, 02:58:58 PM by spaceman spiff »

MS_Cowboy

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Re: How do you build your ships
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2011, 08:46:36 AM »
Ship building is an art :P

As long as they are fast, do good damage, and are well armored I'm happy. I always uses my weapons and engines to line the outside of the ship to take all that directional damage first.

I also make a point of checking the HP of each outer subsystem, comparing it to the hull health, doing some math with regards to the hull aborption % to see how much overall damage I'll have taken by the time they've broken through to my inner components, and using bulkheads as necessary to bring 'death of nonessential components' and 'death of ship' as close together as possible. Heavy hulls are nice since they often don't require bulkheads at all. Some ships don't get min/maxed in this way, such as fighters or super heavily armored ships and nano armor focused ships.

But, my favorite type of ship is the carrier. Not in this game specifically, but in general. I love carrier combat. Any game that does it well is an instant favorite.

So, my main ship is my supercarrier. I make mine scale 2500. Got all the normal trimmings of any good carrier. Loaded down with plate, powered, and nano armor. It uses light hull and the internal components arent bulkheaded though, so it relies on sheer scale and armor to survive. I also have a small construction bay, solely for the ability to construct a single colonizer after clearing out an enemy system. Refill materials at the new planet, jump to new system, repeat :P no need to manage the movement of colonizers in tandem with the carrier to catch planets before someone else.

It's filled with size 5 heavy fighters. Those things are monsters. 2x size 2 railguns with 1.5 coolant systems on both. They are heavily armored and can generally take quite a few hits from ships up to size 100. Probably the most exciting moment in the game for me was when I figured out reactive armor, and realized I could make massive swarms of deadly fighters that are also tough as nails even for significantly larger ships.

Hazzard

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Re: How do you build your ships
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2011, 02:11:39 PM »
Carrier combat is something I've never mastered yet but I hear a lot of people praising it.

I find fighter behaviour too eratic to utilise carriers effectively... or at least without making a mess everywhere with ships.

I love to play conservatively, using everything I have and not making great amounts of ships and still winning... the problem is the AI spits out so many powerful ships so fast that this strategy never works effectively and I am forced to adapt... which is fine, rules of the game and all... but it would be nice to be able to affect the game without having to shit out tonnes of ships constantly.

Jamesk

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Re: How do you build your ships
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2011, 03:47:11 PM »
then it would not be so much of a war game as it would be resource managment

Aeshi

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Re: How do you build your ships
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2011, 08:56:08 AM »
My ships tend to be very tough but very slow. (my scale 64 Battlecruiser has a paltry acceleration of 0.0032 and that's WITH  the Engine Catalyst Trait!)

Mind you my strategies tend to negate this as my Defense is done by Stations, they don't need to run when they're attacking and Carriers with Jump Drives removes any Mobility problems.

spyre2000

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Re: How do you build your ships
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2011, 12:55:23 AM »
After reading around the forums a bit and some testing of my own I find that Nano Armor is the way to go. But this begs the question is it too powerful? I mean you have armor that pretty much makes the ship invulnerable against most attacks unless it's being attacked by over whelming fire power. The other fact that armor is unlimited while over components are not only adds to this.

As for the design I use it's one I read about on the forums. .25 Muon Cannon with 4.0 Rack Mount Subsystem and 8.0-16.0 Nano Armor. The other details are fairly trivial though they vary with tech level. The size is based on whatever is a good fit for my current economy. But so far honestly I can't find anything wrong with this design or something that could work better.

The rack mount gives it a super fast fire rate for huge DPS boost. The fast rate of fire means it can chew through swarms while the Muon ability to ignore 50% of armor means it can also chew threw large ships despite the low damage per shot. Combined with the massive repair given to Nano Armor and the ship is practically invulnerable against most ship designs, even ones of slightly larger size or better tech. Just running the numbers because the heal is so great most ships can never out damage it's heal rate in a one on one fight. Now you make a fleet of these ships and the enemy doesn't stand a chance.

The limited Armor is one of the things I really like about GA mod but even that doesn't stop this ship design, it only limits it slightly with less armor. I seems Nano is the way to go. Though I'm curious what other people are using and if not Nano then what? How do you view that other armor type as being better then Nano?


XTRMNTR2K

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Re: How do you build your ships
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2011, 10:35:57 AM »
The limited Armor is one of the things I really like about GA mod but even that doesn't stop this ship design, it only limits it slightly with less armor. I seems Nano is the way to go. Though I'm curious what other people are using and if not Nano then what? How do you view that other armor type as being better then Nano?

Actually, after unlocking it, shield armor is the way to go. It's DR is shield-based and regenerative and offers true 100% DR as long as the protective field isn't depleted to something like 20% or less. It's also a great way to spoil the fun for those who rely on the armor piercing rack-mount monsters you've described before.

Speaking of armor piercing weaponry - the phased railgun is also an interesting alternative to the muon cannon. While ammo consumption and firing delay are higher, the armor penetration rate is 100%.

As for rack mounts and mass mounts, those will be a bit less effective in the upcoming 1.8 release of Galactic Armory, since they come with a range penalty factor.

spyre2000

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Re: How do you build your ships
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2011, 08:12:06 AM »
Actually, after unlocking it, shield armor is the way to go.....
Well I thought we were talking more about core design. I only mentioned GA as an example of how armor could be limited.

But since you brought it up wouldn't shield armor be even more over powered since it can't be pierced and regens? At least with Nano armor another Muon/Nano ship could take it out because it doesn't need to out pace the armor regen. Also yea I recall seeing the phased railgun in GA, though I stuck with Muon because I liked it's stats better. I know the piercing weapons don't work on shields so still need a good rate of fire to get through them first.

Speaking of which that reminds me in a new game of 1.0.9 I put 2 size 4.0 shield gens on my ship with external mounts. It's pretty nice having the shielding of 8.0 for only 2.0 the space. Sure I had to also increase support systems to meet power but overall I found it to be a good trade off. Now my Muon/Nano ships are not as vulnerable to a similar design.

XTRMNTR2K

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Re: How do you build your ships
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2011, 09:28:42 AM »
But since you brought it up wouldn't shield armor be even more over powered since it can't be pierced and regens? At least with Nano armor another Muon/Nano ship could take it out because it doesn't need to out pace the armor regen. Also yea I recall seeing the phased railgun in GA, though I stuck with Muon because I liked it's stats better. I know the piercing weapons don't work on shields so still need a good rate of fire to get through them first.

It is not as overpowered as it sounds. Particle weapons (particle cannon, ion beam, antimatter projector) deal more damage to any kind of shielding (20% more to be precise), and using PFWs you can deplete the shield even faster. The main difference between shield and nano armor is this: While nano armor repairs its own HP, shield armor only regenerates its damage resistance. Continuous high-DPS bombardment will definately take shield-armor equipped ships out as the armor takes damage everytime the shield regeneration and absorption rate are overcome, and it'll take a lot of repair subsystems to keep up with the damage.
The main advantage of shield armor isn't necessarily its protection btw, as using shield armor instead of armor + shields will free up valuable internal space that can be used for offensive or other purposes.

Anyway, sorry for straying from the original thread topic. As for the topic itself, I have tried a lot of things: Moderately effective allround-designs, specialized designs with a focus on either alpha or DPS, ships with only one kind of weapon, ships with vastly different weapons... The truth is, even after playing for hundreds of hours, I still feel like I've barely scratched the surface. tl;dr I like to experiment and build what I just feel like or what the situation calls for.

Aeshi

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Re: How do you build your ships
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2011, 05:03:41 PM »
I agree that Muon weapons and Nano Armour are an instant "I-win" combo*, though I tend to add Powered and Reactive armour as well for the damage reduction.

Maybe GA makes it better, I'll give it a try when the 1.0.9.0-compatible version comes out.

(*this especially egregious at high tech levels, where Nano Armour gets the ability to regenerate all of it's health EVERY SECOND)

For reference I'm just playing the standard game with no mods.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2011, 05:05:53 PM by Aeshi »

YAHG

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Re: How do you build your ships
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2011, 01:42:19 AM »
I usually play against the AI on 4x speed so my strategy
might be easily thwarted by human players.

I throw some external engines and some plate armor, one
big gun with usually a coolant system. I try to shoot for
less than 2 second weapon cool-down. With a repair bay
on the inside with externally mounted engines even after
they blow off your engines you are still pounding away at
em, and after the battle your engines come back (you can
also get 8.0 engines for 2.0 space for .004-.005 Acceleration
 on reasonably armored ships). If they ships are starting
to get really large and I cant afford a horde I might throw
in some boarding defense.

I have found little use for bulkheads, my rational is that most
of your ships will not be under fire in the battle at any time,
and unless the bulkheads are really big and using a lot of space
they wont make most ships last much long while they will make
most ships a lot weaker. The space seems to be more useful for
more offense or more armor you get lots of hp and also damage
reduction without taking space.

I try to keep the flight times 22+ minutes or so, so I have time
to get a few colony ships in after the battle. Ammo time of at
least 4-5 minutes usually works fine for me.

I like to swarm hordes of ships from my sectors using build all then
 just send them in massive waves.

If you push your tech on whatever your favorite weapon (2 levels
doubles damage without heavy firing costs) is you can usually get

one shot kills for most AI ships, besides outnumbering them severely.

Haze Maetal

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Re: How do you build your ships
« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2011, 03:25:46 AM »
I build my ships with unlimited flight time, no ammo problems ( matter generator, or pure energy base), and replicator ability ( being able to recreate the same scale ship on the fly while in combat using salvager , advanced parts fabricator and electronics fabricator, and ship / construction bay ofcourse.).

I tested out the build in a game for laughs. made 15 replicator ships, 100,000 scale for test purposes.  sent them to enemy systems ( groups of 5).  Put speed on 10x, and came back every once in a while to set automation and build ship queue on all of ships.  After some time.  the replicator fleet went from 15 built from my own planets and resources, to around 3500 ships built from salvaged wreckage in enemy systems. 

So early game i try to focus on teching up,  while keeping defense enough to ward off attackers untill i can get advanced parts fab to get my first build going.  Then the swarm grows off my enemies dead : ).  Yea they may not be the strongest ships.  But whenever a ship dies, friend or foe it is recycled back into the replicator army.

Jusas

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Re: How do you build your ships
« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2011, 09:32:15 AM »
I've only played a few games so far but I've learned to build my combat ships with plenty of ammo and fuel (~1h fuel / 15-20min of ammo is enough) since I really don't want them to run out in the middle of a battle. Secondly I haven't built many ships until I had jump drives researched as I don't really like slowboating back and forth between systems, I stick to artillery stations until I'm ready to build big enough ships to fit a medium-range jump drive and then go on a rampage. I believe I started with scale 40 hulls, then upped it to 70, then finally to 120 which was my standard size of a ship. For bigger mayhem I built some 200 and 300 scale boats and the finally the "endgame" boats of 2000 scale. In addition I built some 2000 scale arty stations that had a ridiculous range of about 78 AU that could just one shot anything in range. Long reload time for sure but they were pretty hilarious to use, wiping out all planets in any chosen system on a whim ;D

As for the weapons to use I found that railguns are pretty much the best way to go. Lasers are nice for not using ammo but their range is just appalling, if your ships aren't too agile you'll end up using most of the time chasing your targets. Missiles absolutely devour ammo although their range is awesome so I tend to use them less.

I haven't even got to mining asteroids or building space docks yet, I feel I'm too busy just getting my planets in order and having the ships just do the shooting. Even in a small 80 system galaxy I had my hands full...

spyre2000

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Re: How do you build your ships
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2011, 11:22:12 AM »
I go for the high DPS ships because while Alpha strikes are nice, in large battles hitting one ship for enough to kill it is fine but if you have to wait a long time to reload the rest of it's fleet will wipe you out. Plus they tend to be more versatile since they can do as much as a high alpha ship in about 2-3 seconds plus get more overall damage since they spread it across multiple targets.

The only potential weakness I see is they often rely on .25 Gun with 4.0 Rack Mount which larger ships armor DR could potential reduce a bit. But I tend to make up for this by using armor piercing weapons. And late game I often switch to 4.0 Gun on 4.0 Coolant system. The Coolant system greatly increases the ammo/energy cost of the weapon which is why I don't use it early on.

I tend to aim for over 2 mins of ammo early on as my units have high ammo usage and can't spare the room for storage. Eventually I shoot for 5 mins though as most battles are not likely to last that long. Either the ship will be dead or victorious after 5 mins. Fuel is along the same lines only it's 15 mins early because after 15 mins the ship is likely to be obsolete and later tech I don't even really bother much cause with .25 fuel storage and .25 compressor it can easily last hours.

I also like to make the ships fast enough that they can close quickly and cross the vast distance between stars in a reasonable time frame. I don't like jump drives because they have too limited of a range early on but once they get high enough in tech I toss on a .25 on for those emergency cases.

On engines I tend to start with ships that are kind of slow but getting faster as time goes on because I devote more to engines as need for power gen, fuel/ammo storage, bridge/cpu, and etc get smaller thanks to better tech.

When it comes to defense I use to think nano was the best but after some testing I found that multi-layered Reactive and Ablative work best, especially against my own ship designs. Nano is great against low DPS targets as you can out heal their damage that can't alpha through your armor. But once nano goes offline it looses all that healing so if they take it down fast enough your not really getting any protection. The layered armor gives you the bonuses of both without much of the drawbacks.

I use to rarely use shields because they took up precious internal space. Now thanks to external mounts I tend to toss a 4.0 shield on external mount for some added protection once my tech can support it. Because I need to unlock the mounts, shields, and have enough extra power gen to support it without diminishing the other systems. So around tech 6-8 is when I start rolling out the shields.

That about covers it as my high damage focus tends to win most battles very quickly. Even when out teched I can rip through most enemy forces due to higher damage output.

MrYo

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Re: How do you build your ships
« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2011, 11:11:46 AM »
I mainly build 3 kinds of (combat) ships:

1) The Drone
-tiny (scale 1.0 or less)
-extremely fast
so that's my cannonfodder. I might add a small laser, but it's best used in high numbers and as, well, cannonfodder

2) The Cruiser
-medium (scale 40-120)
-fast
my main combat ship. It's comparably fast, has shields, armor, lasers and torpedos. I'm trying to combine the pros of all kinds of ships in this one. It's the allrounder, while it still focuses on the engines. When the tech is advanced enough, I sometimes add a jump drive instead of the shields, so it can act as an emergency ship as well.

3) The Destroyer
-large (scale 120-300)
-slow
looks almost like a heavy battlestation with some engines attached, and that's what it actually is. Heavy weapons of all kinds, strong armor, but slow. I use this one to defend my systems and if my cruisers just haven't enough firepower.


Additionally, I got some unique designs I don't use that regularly. At some point I might build a huge DSM ship, a mobile support base (for supplying my ships with fuel and armor and even to build new ships while in combat) or a massive scale 5000 death star (happens rarely, but is awesome to watch!)

spyre2000

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Re: How do you build your ships
« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2011, 02:20:35 PM »
1) The Drone
-tiny (scale 1.0 or less)
-extremely fast
so that's my cannonfodder. I might add a small laser, but it's best used in high numbers and as, well, cannonfodder
Not sure what you mean by "Might" add a small laser. If the ship doesn't have weapons I don't think it will go after AI even with defend system on so be kind of pointless if your cannonfodder doesn't run into the fray. ;)

Also I have a similar design I use to use which I just called Bomber. It's also high speed but it has high alpha as I figure it will die fast so best get it's damage in quick. Don't bother with armor or any defenses really cause most things will just one shoot it. Even though the name was the same it's nothing like the default bomber design which like all default designs are rubbish.

MrYo

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Re: How do you build your ships
« Reply #26 on: October 14, 2011, 04:28:01 PM »
I mean that I add a laser if I have the sufficient economy. If you build 10k of those things, it get's quite a lot more expensive if you attach weapons.
Yes, they don't go for AI automatically, but you just send them to the place were the battle is. I don't mind spending some extra time to command the drone fleet if I can save some resources  ;)

Oh, and I don't bother with armor, defenses or anything. Those drones are just a computer core with a little generator and lots of engines. And while writing this I got an idea to make them even better... less fuel cell, more engines, store them on ship bays on my cruisers :D

Exa

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Re: How do you build your ships
« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2011, 04:51:25 PM »
It sounds like you will be adding decoy countermeasures to your cruisers, nice idea!

Have you tried making your drones/decoys smaller?
« Last Edit: October 14, 2011, 04:54:32 PM by Exa »

MrYo

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Re: How do you build your ships
« Reply #28 on: October 14, 2011, 04:59:35 PM »
It sounds like you will be adding decoy countermeasures to your cruisers, nice idea!

Have you tried making your drones/decoys smaller?

Like I said, scale 1 or smaller. But for that decoy idea I should really make them smaller, scale 0.01 or so... and maybe a small construction bay to make them "reload" :D
Could become an all-new ship design, something between cruiser and destroyer.

Exa

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Re: How do you build your ships
« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2011, 03:41:22 AM »
I guess for decoys a "ship" with the smallest possible fighter hull and a bussard ramjet (does not require control, fuel, nor energy) would be enough. Perhaps you can even drop the bussard and just "lay" the decoys at the right time.

The more I think about it, the more I like your idea, MrYo :)
« Last Edit: October 15, 2011, 04:44:30 AM by Exa »