Author Topic: Are the Nylli impossible to play in long games?  (Read 4225 times)

Brigadon

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Are the Nylli impossible to play in long games?
« on: March 27, 2015, 11:30:14 AM »
The lack of ability to create resource stockpiles, to allow worlds to create their own water and food, and labor boosters seem to make the Nylli extremely uncompetetive over the long run... you are enslaved to your food planets (or lucky card and artifact draws) and thus terraforming seems like almost a losing proposition. They seem weak both in early and late game.

Are there some tricks to the nylli (Other than creating lots of mothership/stations) to keep them competitive? I understand that new manufactured worlds and ringworlds can potentially help, especially since they do not require any food/water resources, but the other teams have the same advantage in creating artificial worlds...

dalolorn

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Re: Are the Nylli impossible to play in long games?
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2015, 10:31:28 AM »
An interesting consideration.

It may be possible to make orbitals for the Nylli which perform the functions of similar 'imperial' buildings placed planetside.

Brigadon

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Re: Are the Nylli impossible to play in long games?
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2015, 08:36:49 AM »
After playing them for some time, I find that there are only two real killers:

Being slave to planet types.
Lack of ability to store or magnify labor.

The first is due to an inability to terraform planets to food or water bearing, or to create any sort of farming or aquatic boosts. This is a minor nuisance, considering your ability to build multiple motherships and gain population that way, but on blocking out certain world types that grow based on level seems a bit harsh, since you seem to almost never gain enough for level 4 and 5 worlds.

The inability to store and magnify labor is absolutely crippling, though, and nothing mid or late game makes up for it.

I was hoping someone had some tips to get around it, but as it stands, The Nylli just feel like thhey are a cool gimmick with little thought given to their long game.

dalolorn

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Re: Are the Nylli impossible to play in long games?
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2015, 11:02:15 AM »
Brigadon, I personally feel both of your complaints are fairly moot.

Resources: I was running a 4-way Clusters FFA last night. 120 stars, 20k spacing, don't remember the rest. I was able to comfortably support two level 3 scalables (FTL crystals and Allondium) and a level 4 Phosphate without ever leaving my home cluster. Granted, having a metric ton of Cultivations I gathered from various sources proved helpful. I had even begun constructing a RINGWORLD by the time I had to go.

Also, your empire can become a financial behemoth by using all the pressure it can find. In the abovementioned game, each planet I found containing Fulrate was promptly colonized - pure profit. One of them even managed to ramp up its income to §970k(!) per budget cycle just by eating up 4 Morphic Materials asteroids. You wouldn't see me doing either of those things with a non-Nylli race, you can be sure of that.

Labor: Your attitude here suggests you are trying to build your military with only a handful of Motherships. In the abovementioned game, I had my starting Mothership (which had just started working on the Ringworld) and between a dozen and two dozen 'Homeships', ships I'd carefully designed to get some money out of a Mothership hull. (It works - at full population, I net §33k every budget cycle, PER SHIP. That alone managed to pay a huge portion of my empire's maintenance, letting me get a whopping 7M net income.)

All in all, would giving Nylli orbital counterparts for imperial buildings work? I'm pretty sure it would, and have an idea as to how to do it. But it's not quite as necessary as you make it out to be.

Brigadon

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Re: Are the Nylli impossible to play in long games?
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2015, 10:27:48 AM »
I am not thinking orbitals for ALL buildings, just for storing labor, like factories, and for creating food and water, at the same price scale as surface dwellers.
I too have occasionally gotten very lucky with cultivations and comets, but it feels like you are ten times as dependent on lucky asteroid/world distribution as well as lacking the ability to store labor. Storing labor is the difference between having a new flag ship in 30 seconds, or 10 minutes.

'agricultural stations' and 'distillation stations' would be a nice trick that would go a long way towards making the Nylli competitive, but a 'labor bank' or even the ability to store labor in shipyards (maybe using lots of ore to build?) Seems to be almost mandatory.

As it stands, my first couple of mothership/cash farms are always miners and I make a beeline for artificial worlds (which is a strategy that evens the battleground considerably, despite not being able to build resources weakening it... then again, the Mono get a lot less utility from artificial worlds too, and no one is complaining) which helps, but the lack of labor storage and the ability to rapidly deploy any labor using structures, including ships, is a fierce blow against the Nylli's feasibility, especially against races like the Mono.

Mostly though, I was hoping someone knew some tips unique to the Nylli that could make up for such a huge disadvantage. Other than 'build Mothership cash farms/ defense stations' which are not quite as powerful as orbital cannons.

Do 500 size motherships with monster torpedos make up, defensively, for the lack of planetary cannons? What sorts of mothership variations do you tend to use to make up for the lack of planetary use?

dalolorn

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Re: Are the Nylli impossible to play in long games?
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2015, 04:39:45 AM »
I only used my starting Mothership (no refits) and armorless size-500 flying engines with a pair of torpedo launchers and a pair of rocket pods. Never saw combat during that match.

Lok42

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Re: Are the Nylli impossible to play in long games?
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2015, 12:26:07 AM »
You're not tied down to your planets.

You can build extremely effective mining motherships for essentially no upkeep.  Star Forges are your friend.

You can link mothership labor to shipyards, etc.

Even though it's fairly minimal, as the poster above stated, you can generate a net income with some mothership designs (and hide them in deep space).  After a certain point, exponential gains become significant.

Due to the mothership hull firing restriction, it may be beneficial to snag a single planet per system in a broad range of systems, and send in mothership fleets (low upkeep) to take the rest.

This game's going to be fun for years.^^
« Last Edit: April 22, 2015, 01:21:22 AM by Lok42 »
At what age does hypocrisy become wisdom?  Am I there yet?

JackVonFlippen

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Re: Are the Nylli impossible to play in long games?
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2015, 09:07:47 AM »
IT is time to play the Nylli I see... Excellent.
Rule 1: Only overrule the tactical computer if you know something it doesn't.

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