Author Topic: <SUGGESTIONS> weapon accuracy, vectoring engines  (Read 743 times)

Pnakotus

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<SUGGESTIONS> weapon accuracy, vectoring engines
« on: August 23, 2010, 07:22:13 PM »
I'm not sure how the game handles weapons fire (or how far through development the game is to change that) but it seems to use a Sins-style system where damage is delivered and a pretty sparkle flies along the path.  Pretty much the only like Sword of the Stars did right was having weapons with accuracy, projectiles that had existence, stray shots, etc; it allowed modders to hack out hard-coded 'ranges' and just make natural limits based on accuracy of fire.  It also looked hells of cool with things flying around everywhere instead of just between targets, gave manouvre a value in combat and made combat more participatory.  However, it's probably quite core to the game ... but it'd be great to see.


I'd also like to see mod support for engines that can fire in more than one direction with some proportion of main thrust.  If a thruster can reverse at 25% (or whatever) it'd be excellent for mods (without losing the awesome newtonian system in place) and make combat a bit more dynamic.

In a related issue, I'd really like systems to have function based on current speed.  I don't want to hear any silliness about no speed in space; the game is on a map.  Thngs like scoops should work better when you're going faster and not at all below certian speeds, which would adda  lot of character for 'hard' scifi ships design to cross large distances at high speed using scoops that suck for insystem work.  I'd also like to see the AI intelligently judge thrust based on fuel; if I tell a ship with thruster to go somewhere and it has 5s of thrust in the fuel tank, it should calculate the course required to get there with a push off and a push stop, instead of burning 5s of fuel straight away and drifting off like an idiot.

In short this is a really fun and interesting game that takes a great original approach to a lot of mechanics, and I'm more interested in making those mechanics more interesting than nagging about things I'm sure the devs already know about.

echo66

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Re: <SUGGESTIONS> weapon accuracy, vectoring engines
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2010, 10:26:44 PM »
I'm not sure how the game handles weapons fire (or how far through development the game is to change that) but it seems to use a Sins-style system where damage is delivered and a pretty sparkle flies along the path.  Pretty much the only like Sword of the Stars did right was having weapons with accuracy, projectiles that had existence, stray shots, etc; it allowed modders to hack out hard-coded 'ranges' and just make natural limits based on accuracy of fire. 

Of course Sword of the stars had it: they had few ships in each combat. So, it can be done without any problems with efficiency. Now, with Star Ruler, that's another thing. Here, you can have thousands of ships in combat. Sir, you do not want to calculate each bullet impact on each vessel or your PC will *boom*

Firgof

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Re: <SUGGESTIONS> weapon accuracy, vectoring engines
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2010, 11:02:29 PM »
We cannot do more than a single acceleration vector at this time.  Literally, the option you would have us make is:
(a) Nearly limitless numbers of ships with 1 vector
(b) A capped limit of ships with 2 vectors

The math and formula for the movement system simply can't get more efficient.  We can't fathom a movement formula elegant enough and fast enough to support two vectors of acceleration while maintaining our current ability to have thousands and thousands of ships traversing the galaxy.

The movement system is the most computationally expensive portion of the game and would need extensive retrofitting if we were to add in two possible vectors of acceleration as well as teaching a craft when to use those vectors.  All in all, it would require essentially ripping out the entire movement system and putting in a new one while stripping out one of the main features of the game: the potential for epic-scale battle.

Weapon accuracy simulation:  This is To Be Added and its mechanics are planned.  Currently, Miss chance, missing, and teaching the hit solution to compare the sizes of the target ship and the host ship, compare relative velocities, check range, and make a determination on whether the shot should hit or miss is on the list of features to be added.  This will eventually make it into the game along with (probably) weapon arcs, mounting types, and etc.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2010, 11:05:29 PM by Firgof »
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Pnakotus

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Re: <SUGGESTIONS> weapon accuracy, vectoring engines
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2010, 12:41:20 AM »
That's good news, and I understand it's a big thing to throw in so early.  The Sins guys hamstrung themselves with the whole RTS 'perfect accuracy' thing and had to do all kinds of 'armour type' silliness to balance large/small ships, when accuracy does that naturally.  Regarding movement vectors, does '1 vector per ship' prevent 'reversing' as well as moving 'sideways'?  Are you guys planning on improving the way the ships control their burns and fuel use, or does that become too expensive?

Echo66, frankly people telling me what is and isn't possible in a game is a hilarious experience; people on Sins forums told me that it was 'impossible' to have animated turrets on ~100 ships.  No seriously, they did.  Regardless of whether it's a modified to-hit roll or a SotS-style physical impact system, it's obviously NOT impossible.